If William Wallace [or the masculine archetype of your choosing] could take a walk around most evangelical churches today I reckon he’d feel very uncomfortable with the men, despite the fact that he’d be the one wearing the skirt. I’m sure the long line of Biblical Patriarchs would feel similarly. Heck, I suspect Jesus would be more comfortable with a long walk in the desert than another ‘bout of pseudo-religious babble designed to ticke ears and placate another "man's" recalcitrant inner emotional child.
Maybe its the pastel décor, the My-Jesus-My-Boyfriend songs, the overwhelming number of women or an absence of respectable men in the church calling other men to stop prolonging their adolescence and to start being men themselves. Whatever the reason, the numbers tell the story.
The 2006 Australian National Church Life Survey found that in every denomination, in every age grouping, more women attend church than men. In fact only 39% of people who attend church in Australia are male. And we need to ask the question about the quality of those who do attend. So here are some of the "men" you'll encounter within the 39% of males who are attending a local church service near you:
The Predator: Many of the men who come to churches are there because of the disproportionate number of women present. Basically, your odds are better at church than at the local pub. Plus you don’t have to buy drinks. So they’re not just sexual predators, they’re cheap too.
The Church Boy: You’ll also find within those males who do attend church the nice, soft, eager-to-please church boy. He thinks he’s good because he doesn’t do anything bad, but his problem is that he doesn’t do anything! This is a nice, compliant, confused male. Just the kind of guy you want to marry your daughter / sister, and to lead the church to go charge the gates of hell.
Mr Present-but-absent: This guy comes to church because his wife makes him. She sees it as a good moral influence on the kids (one they're not getting anything explicit from dad) and the kids won't go if dad doesn't go. So she makes life unbearable for him and rather than endure the tyranny, he ticks the box on a Sunday.
So if 39% of church attendees are male and within this demographic there are sexual predators, neutered-nice-boys and absent-box-tickers, I think it’s safe to say there is a crisis in Australian churches.
Yes, I do know that there are some Manly Men in some churches. I'm sure you want to step in and defend them, but I think you'll find they're frustrated about this too. Ask them... And yes I'm well aware that I've written in rough caricatures as a kind of shorthand to describing the problem.
But can we agree there's a problem?
[I need to acknowledge the influence of this man and this book in shaping my thoughts on these issues over the last few years.]
Tuesday, March 6, 2007
Manly Men Part 1 of 3:
Where are the Manly Men?
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24 comments:
Perhaps the problem your describing in the church is as much to do with 'the church mirroring the world' as with anything else.
Masculinity has become a hazy, undefinable commodity because, somewhere along the line our gender emasculated themselves. Some blame feminism, some blame a demand for some kind of uber-man that can cry, listen, provide and lift heavy things...all at once. Personally I blame it on the steroids they use in chickens.
Seriously though, I think our gender-roles have been assigned increasingly by the culture of the day or the denomination rather than us figuring out what Jesus reckoned a manly man was. And Jesus wept, Jesus was compassionate, he sure fed vast quantity of people and he carried a heavy cross.
I know this post is only 33.3% through, but I think part of the deal lies in where we've received our cues (the unfaithful father, the abusive church leader, the chameleon leader, the weak whimp of a Boys' Brigade leader for example) and how we've gone about redeeming those models of masculinity to allow God-drenched one to emerge.
I hope, as we go, this can be as much about the greatness of the men in our lives that stretch us up as the ones that we are redeemed from. And the holy intent that we're being called to. Because that's what Jesus would be about.
I reckon.
What if, though, in the process of biblical review, you revealed a prescription of sorts for this 'Manly Man'. Would that 'new stereotype' (perhaps new humanity might be better words than stereotype) have any bearing on behaviour and posture?
Or would it need to be abandoned because it's forcing you to fit a mould?
Again, I'm not advocating steroids and extra large t-shirts. Simply that if there are instructions about what it means to be a man, let's have 'em. And to hear it in the context of being a man with God, being a man in relationship, being a man with my family, being a man in the church, and being a man in the workplace. Stuff the stereotype, help me become (in an increasing way) what Jesus and apostles like Paul are calling us to be. And keep looking for what that means rather than create my own palatable agenda.
I'm sorry Brad, I don't agree that there is a problem. Sure the predator thing is a reality, but church boy and absent man... hmmm
I'm not so sure that the men are that bad. I know plenty of women, though, who would love to complain about it with you. What's that proverb about nagging wives and rooftop living again? ;)
I like men, I don't really like dating them or having them as partners yet - I consider myself too young and green - but all of the males I know are actually really masculine in a wonderful way.
It makes me very angry when women use their words to bring down men. Some women I know forward emails remarking on the 'weakness' of men or what-have-you. I have a regular go at them, it's not appropriate for women to act like that. I hate that we are responsible for sometimes stripping men of their masculinity. As a girl/woman/whichever I find that some of the time we we may judge too brashly, with more consideration to what we want out of men, than paying attention to who they are. Men in the church - you are wonderful. There's something amazing about you. Thankyou for walking me to my car, letting me lean on your shoulder, for engaging me in dialogue and generally being around to help out when I'm not enough...
It makes me sad to see a man talking this way. I just don't see the men here as weak or absent, and say a man was weak or absent? I still wouldn't complain, I can be overbearing and whiney. A willingness to be restored will work wonders on anyone struggling with problems specific to their gender. Love, patience, time and good fun will do the world of good.
Clare_ I think it's absolutely brilliant that you've had such an affirming experience of men within the church. And I'm certainly not advocating any form of man-bashing (or boy-bashing) here. Heck, until you turned up here, the only comments had been from blokes! I think Brad's initial and broad brush strokes (let's bear in mind this is 1 of 3!) is painting a picture of a malaise that is clearly beyond the slice of culture you're describing. And I'm not for a moment denigrating your experience - I sincerely wish that it was more representative of the church at large though. Because there are other pictures that are far nastier. And why we don't want to dwell there either, I think the ultimate orientation of the post is to move toward a biblical understanding about the Manly Man rather than a cultural one (whether cultural within the church or the world).
What Brad describes in this post is beyond anecdotal to a big fat ugly broader picture. And the idea (I'm guessing) isn't to camp there but to set a context for the real deal. Not feisty, more perhaps, a shot across the bow. You know...just getting it out there.
Again, I love that you have a story as affirming as that to tell (and I hope you encourage the blokes around you with it). I also hope that perhaps some of the gold that you have experienced becomes some of the fuel for Posts 2 & 3. Because we need that perspective.
Too young and too green... awww Clare here I was building up the courage to ask you to go for a cup of mariage... erm.. I mean coffee... and a slice of commitment... erm.. I mean cake... damm my Freudian slips :)
On the point in hand...
There is a tragic unwilingness by Christian men to reach out to other Christian men...We are divided and lack unity. Without this unity we cannot challenge each other to be better men... we don't talk, we don't share.. we are spiritual sitting ducks. We are either trapped in our comfort zones or worse still, accepting defeat in the spiritual war as inevitable... we MUST find a way to unite... Male only connect groups or someting... where we challenge and compete with each other. Where we call a spade a spade.
This situation needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency... not because of the whines of women but because there are people out there who do not know the Lord... (and maybe a little because of the whining women:))
Proclaim this amongst the nations:
Prepare war
stir up the warriors.
Let all the soldiers draw near,
let them come up.
Beat the plowshares into swords,
and your pruning hooks into spears:
let the weakling say,
"I am a warrior."
Joel 3.9-11
Irish
Irish: I can't imagine too green would be any issue for an Irishman!
But, back to your comment. You're by no means describing utopia. If you are, I'm living in it. I meet weekly with a bunch of guys (4 of us) in a group for the purpose of encouragement, challenge and accountability. It's been the same four of us for about 6-7 years now and it's gold. Another couple of mates meet with me early on a Tuesday morning for devotions. The purpose of saying this isn't to talk anything up but to say that if you're keen, either start something or join something...cause it's out there! Or talk with me...I'll hook you up!
Keiran_ I was looking back to where I ever said anything about being a husband like Jesus??! But anyway...
I think me bigger point is, that I'm not androgynous, I'm a man/bloke (whatever word creates the least stereotype-triggers for you).
Ps 139 says: My frame was not hidden from when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me
were written in your book before one of them came to be.
And so, when I read the male-directed in instruction within the bible, or the different examples of masculinity, I'm taking notes.
Interestingly, Fi and I are 5 months pregnant. For the 4 months that we've known we've prayed over this 'baby'. We've prayed that 'it' will love God, know Jesus, know grace, serve Him, by passionate about Him, lead others toward him...and be healthy and stuff. But this Wednesday we had our 20-week ultrasound and guess what? There's a little girl in there. And that knowledge has also changed the nature of our prayers. We're still praying all those other things which are regardless of gender, but now we're praying stuff consistent with a Godly woman as we see that described in God's word.
Cause we're different.
So, I absolutely appreciate that you enjoy my expansive life (I find it fun too!) but I'm reminding myself...and the reminder no doubt, in part, comes from both leadership and impending fatherhood, that I'm called to be a father, an elder, a Godly man consistent with the descriptions that I read of. I'm tempted to articulate those, but I don't want to hijack a post that's one-third done.
ha ha ha
death wish - I mean date accepted. Jokes, but I will eat pizza, swear and talk theology with you anytime...
I realise that Brad is painting with broad strokes.. I really shouldn't comment when tired.
I think what saddens me isn't that you're lying or anything like that - you're speaking true things. Maybe it's that I've been around too many women who say "..oh, but of course I'm generalising.." and continue to disparage the men around them - like excusing the things that come out of their mouth just because they can is acceptable. I guess they just watch and remark rather than speaking hope and restoration to what they see as ill-fitting or wrong. In an attempt to thin out my own broad strokes not all women do this, but a lot do and it frustrates me.
I'm deathly afraid that conversations like this will languish and we'll move onto something else, when we had the opportunity to do something wonderful.
Being female, I can't help but see who I am as a female caught up in your exporation of what it means to be masculine. I don't want women to continue to say discouraging things about men. I'd rather be helping, you know?
I really do admire that you're bringing this up. Like Irish has commented, some men don't even talk to other men. So here's to you, the bravest and the best. I can't wait for parts 2 + 3.
I'm turning in, my body needs rest and the interesting people at cacophony are NOT HELPING!
GO AWAY!!!
Green... yup.. we Irishman do have a partiality to all things green... accept green bannanas.. :)
Thanks Simon...
I just got together with a similar thinking chap I know... and we've been throwing stuff out on the table, with that kind of real scraping the bottom of the barrel type honesty that the devil hates... and then praying together about the stuff that comes up...
Its powerful though having someone you respect to acount for your actions to... and it can become kind of competitive... almost like two sons wrestling for their fathers favour...
I think competition and adversity breeds strong men... especially if your competing to be better men...
But as as I was explaining to Clare... I think what got under my skin in the first few months... was that the only people that reached out to me in any way in the first few weeks were girls...
the lads would be hard pushed to invite me into a conversation never mind to an event..recahing out, hospitality, genorosaity of spirit, I believe that thee things are supposd to be fundamental to possessing faith... and I realy wasn't feeling that the first few weeks I was hanging about the place... not from blokes anyway.
And measuring that against my boys back home (All non Christians)who'd invite you into their lives and into their homes in a flash... I got quite frustrated
It got under my skin... and I did on many levels agree with what a lot of girls were saying to me... but to be honest as times gone on... I think its not really any sexes particular fault.. when God lays the blame at someones door.. he usually does it on a collective... and thats what I'd do from an obervers point of view... so I blam all of ya... and even worse now as I am beggining to settle into Riverview... it now becomes my responsibilty to be a little friendlier too..
As for death wish... I'll bring pizza as long as you bring the fluffy cloud.. but as a practicing Catholic who has infiltrated Riverview on a sanctioned mission from the Vatican.. dum de dum dum dum dum dum do dah de doo dah... (Its the bond theme tune) to get close to Phil Baker.. kidnap/and or convert him to Catholocism... and thus bringing all members of his suspicious little cult back to the one "true" faith... I think we may disagree on many many many theological points... :)
Irish (and Clare for that matter)_ I'm waiting to make you guys pizza. The dough is ready, the sauce was made last weekend...you bludgers can do the rest while I provide the venue and pad out the posse.
Ha Ha...I'm in... I'll bring some pineapple & ham... when this on?
Irish
Let's sort out a time next time we see each other. As a monitor of who's visiting the site, I need to be a little prudent about posting it! We could have people flying in from Venezuela, Finland, Argentina, Korea, India, Germany...and half of China (based on the profile of visitors). That's great...but it would be good to know beforehand!
I’m with Irish. I reckon this is one of the most important conversations for the church to have. In the bible when God wants something done he invariably called upon men to start things. When something went wrong he invariably calls upon the men to answer. And when the men aren’t doing their bit it all goes bad. Not because of value but because of function.
And I’m with you Clare when you say that you’re sick of complaining women and that what we don’t need is another blog conversation that gets archived and forgotten. I’m over the sitcom stereotype of dumb dad, hot wife and kid who solves all their problems. Perhaps there’s a Womanly Woman post to run in tandem?
In my experience we sometimes hint at these issues of masculinity and femininity but before it gets too uncomfortable we pull the “well let’s just leave it in the hands of the Lord” when I think there’s plenty that he’s already said––which, I believe, may have been what Simon alluded to.
Maybe a letter to the pastoral team signed by aseven women and seven men... saying whats up? this needs to be addressed... maybe women could write down the "issues" they have with Christian men... and same for the men on what they percieve the problem is... yup.. i'd suggest a letter... no more whispering in corners... just chuck it on the agenda...
I been on the blower to Pope Benedict and told him I'd straight up fire his arse if he didn't get his stuff together... and adress this issue so I think he's on it too..
Irish
Irish_ I think you need to remember that, depending on your vantage, the situation is either a) dire, b) healthy or c) unknown. And so, any 'action' taken needs to be informed by that. While I hear you and know where you're coming from, I sometimes think that it's first becoming and then being a catalyst for becoming that is the starting point.
Otherwise, you become the next single-issue advocate that's full of sound and fury...and signifying nothing.
While I'm passionate about building the church, when I sat down to think about 2007 at the beginning of the year, my intent was more to 'be' the church than build it. And we can be a catalyst for that in a multitude of ways.
What we have before us is a generation that simply deny the reality of God and Christ in his biblical context, basically rejecting the reality of God.
God who is spirit, chose to establish himself in the form of man and as a father, both masculine.
Wouldn't it suffice to say that a rejection of God by men is therefore a rejection of our only complete model of masculinity?
Hence mens roles in society and home at large have changed dramatically, men have lost their purpose and thus vision, in a word God's intended identity for all men.
Sexuality is questioned in all of this and crisis after crisis is incurred pyshcologically!
Though in Churchianity , within our hollowed halls perhaps it is as dire as it has been outlined, but there are two other divisions in our midst, that of the uber liberal come conservatist male and the christian leftist male.
There are also a lot of men who by this posts dictates are men in both word, deed and spirit, however they fit not into the modern church and see church its self as a stumbling block to true faith and christian living, the emerging church is out side the building - whether this is right or wrong or God intended I do not know?
But we men irrespective must grow up indeed!
A very well put point Simon... challenging...
I'm a kick a door in kind of guy... which although gets things done it often means getting carpenters in to repair the damage... when I kick in a door and theres a group of christians standiong on the other side looking at me with shock and dissaproval "Was that really necessary?"...
Thankfully I met this carpenter who changed my life about a year and a half ago...
He's good at fixing doors and burnt bridges and other stuff like that...
Didn't get a business card but his dad wrote a great book...
Much Love
Irish
Irish_ I tried a whacky yahoo email address for you and it bounced back to me. Could you email me at simon@the-globe.com.au and we'll get the show on the road.
Well boys.... I'm sure glad we sorted that one out... :)
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